Dudley Webb answers CentrePointe critics

This afternoon, Lexington developer Dudley Webb sent me this letter replying to critics of his proposed CentrePointe development:

I just read with interest your opinions about our project and I welcome them, just as I did those that I heard at the meeting at the Theater on Saturday.

I do have some thoughts about them and wanted to take just a minute to share them with you.

First of all, I was appreciative of their invitation, found it to be very well organized and informative, and appreciated the cordiality with which I was received. My disappointment was that even though I attended the meeting in hopes that I could gain ideas as to how we can better our project, some of those attending relayed to me that they didn’t think I should have been there in that I inhibited their discussion as to how they were going to stop this project. Later that afternoon, I found that this dialogue had again digressed into some of the same old trash talking and personal insults that they had already been directing at us on their Web Pages and Blogging sites. It seems that even the distinguished retired ex-Dean of UK’s Architectural School, a self anointed expert on mixed-use development, had by then joined in with diatribe. To them, all I can say is that they too are entitled to their opinions and that they have been considered. With all of that now said, we still are adamant that what we have proposed is in the best interest of this city and all of its people. More importantly, it should be understood that we are not embarrassed about the many great projects and civic undertakings that we have done here and we certainly aren’t going to start apologizing for them now.

The good news was that I found most of those present on Saturday were very sincere and concerned citizens who care about Lexington and share in our notion that it can and should be the best that it can be. This was why I wanted to attend – to listen to their thoughts and ideas about their vision for our downtown as well as our property at that location. Some there didn’t realize that such a new project there would be downtown’s first in over twenty years and that of the last four major projects that have been done there, it was The Webb Companies that had done them all – some $200,000,000 worth. Some appreciated it, some didn’t and some simply didn’t care.

A few I talked to didn’t agree that our downtown is still somewhat struggling or that it even needs another shot in the arm like this to kick start it again. Some wouldn’t even agree that we want and need more businesses, visitors, tourists and full-time downtown residents, more convention goers, more shoppers, more patrons for our restaurant entertainment venues or more people on our streets down there. Consensus about anything is obviously difficult to achieve, especially when some just simply like it as it is.

The interesting thing is that it was just about three years ago at this time that our local Tourism Bureau encouraged our Company to again get involved by developing a new hotel property in and for our downtown. Their reasoning was that we were losing meetings and conventions to other cities because we did not have enough downtown hotel rooms to effectively compete for this business. At that point, there was consensus on that and that we needed a new Hotel down there. Ironically, the stars seemed to have finally aligned so as to allow us to bring such a world class, $250,000,000 development to our downtown. Now, after expending all of this time, effort and the money to try to make this happen, a few present seem intent on now trying to thwart that effort entirely, or to force us to allow them to impose their own visions and tastes as to what this project should be and what it should look like.

I did also listen intently as they described our buildings in the block as being historic and worthy of preservation. What I didn’t hear though was anyone else in the Theater that was interested in acquiring these buildings so as to preserve them. The fact is that many of these buildings have been sitting there vacant and/or available for many years with no efforts or offers from these people to buy them or to protect from their demise. Neither did I sense that there was anyone there who was prepared to step up and undertake these risks or to expend the time and the effort to make any such a project happen here, whether it be a historic rehab or totally new. As you know, we have repeatedly challenged many of those present and their organizations that if they truly want to save the old buildings or to do a new development on block like they want, they can and should buy these properties from us at our cost and do it themselves. Again though, nobody wants to do that either.

The bottom line is that everybody in town has an opinion about our property and what we are proposing to try to do with it to make our downtown better. Although we appreciate that they have every right to have such opinions, they should also respect that we own the property and that it is our skin that is in the game.

Basically, I think everyone knows that projects like this cannot be designed by Committee, or by consensus. As to the thoughts about conducting some type of design competition to ultimately decide what we build and what it would look like, this might have been a great idea under normal circumstances. However, as our Hotel partner and a major investor in this project has pointed out, this won’t work here for several reasons. The first problem is that we have already hired Architects and Engineers who have been working on this project for more than 18 months now and that we already have contractual obligations with and to them. He also points out that J. W. Marriott will not even consider allowing one of their proposed properties to become a part of such a competition. They have their own design standards, proprietary criteria as well as Architects of preference who design their hotels. Fortunately, they have already arranged for us to work with one of their best on this project and they certainly don’t want us to now throw him out and start over. Although he was appreciative of the idea, he simply feels that it is now far too late for us to go back and start over.

In regards to design, I also listened to several comments during the meeting that were critical of the design of our Radisson Hotel/World Trade Center complex, as well as, our Lexington Financial Center and our Woodlands projects that we also built in the downtown. To that, all we can say is that they were the very best that we could make them at that point in time when the prime rate of interest was floating at above 15% and our downtown was truly floundering. We would also suggest to these folks that they can now second guess and criticize them if they like, but they should also think where downtown would be today without them and the loyal businesses and employees that continue to headquarter, work and/or live down there as a result of these being there. These too were the best that they could be at the time.

Tom, I liken our current situation to when many local critics expressed that they didn’t like the colors that we selected for the historic Victorian Square facades that we were then trying to save and restore. Once again, all we could do was listen, make the best and most informed decision that we could under the circumstances and to then proceed with what we as the owners of and investors in the project thought was best for the project and the downtown. This situation appears to be a similar. This is not to say that we are still not trying to listen or that we have closed the door on our consideration of other ideas. It is just that we have now been working on this project for over two years now and that we cannot drag this out forever. It is time that we recognize the realities involved this opportunity and then move on.

The first reality that everyone seems to have forgotten in all of this is that our Government elected not to adopt the Downtown Master Plan that many of those there yesterday had so steadfastly supported and often refer to when they voice opposition to our project. Instead our City decided by virtue of its latest Comprehensive Plan that it did adopt that this community should grow up through the development of projects like this one for our downtown, rather than out into the horse farms and green belt as others would have preferred. We agree as most do that this was the best and most responsible choice for the City to make, although some there yesterday stated that even though the Downtown Master Plan had been discarded, it was already paid for by the City and should still be respected and enforced. This was also the exact reason that the Fayette Alliance which consists of our most prominent thoroughbred and farming interests have since conditionally endorsed our project.

Strangely enough, absolutely none of the consultants that prepared that Downtown Master Plan ever bothered to contact our Company or many of our other constituents for our thoughts and input during their supposed planning phase, this despite the fact that we are still the largest private owner of real estate in the downtown. Again though, it was our government’s decision to adopt the newest and latest Comprehensive Plan which they did and one would think that we now have every right to rely upon it in the planning our project. The Comprehensive Plan does not impose height limitations for such projects, but to allay concerns, we have even offered to reduce the height of the proposal to 35 stories, this being the absolute minimum number at which our project will work economically. That overture hasn’t been accepted either.

The next reality that we must deal with is that absolutely nobody can develop a major high rise complex there and still save either these buildings and/or their facades. Both Preserve Lexington and The Bluegrass Trust need to pick their battles and focus on the ones that make sense, not on these old buildings of which so little is left. Under the standard that was talked about on Saturday, the Eastland, Southland, Gardenside and Cardinal Valley Shopping Centers are eligible to be deemed as historic which makes absolutely no sense. Again, we are great supporters of historic preservation, but we need to get realistic about this process.

As I said at the meeting, our consultants and contractors have repeatedly reaffirmed to everyone concerned that we can’t save these few old buildings and/or their facades and have this project too. As to those facades, most have long since been torn off and/or modified by prior owners to the extent that they are longer older historic. As to the remainder, they simply will not withstand our having to drill and blast down through 15′ of solid limestone that is under the entire block so as to create the underground parking that the City’s consultants and planners now say they prefer instead of surface garages. What we have since agreed to do though is to donate any of these buildings or any of these facades to anyone who will move and preserve them if they will move them on a timely basis.

The third reality is that like it or not, this is the only location that is now available for high rise development in our center core and where such a project can and should be built. If we cross Main Street, we are then most certainly threatening buildings that are absolutely worthy of preservation. If we go south of High Street, we are again in another historic area that should not be disturbed. This only leaves this one linear strip running east from the Civic Center between Main and Vine Streets where such high-rise developments can be built and most of those blocks already have viable developments on them.

As to the concerns being expressed about the tenants of our old buildings in the block that will be displaced, our representatives and those of the City have been working very diligently with these tenants during recent months and most have already found new locations in the downtown for their businesses. This block will not be the “entertainment venue” that our young people want and our focus should now be in finding a replacement venue for them as well.

As to The Farmers Market, the reality is that we too want them to continue to operate in this same area, have met with them many times and we think this issued is now worked out to where they can do so. I think they will tell you that we have always been a huge supporter of the Farmer’s Market and have always cooperated with them and the City in an effort to insure that they remain downtown. In that regard, we have offered our cooperation to them and the City so as to encourage them to continue to operate during the upcoming season along the 200 and 300 Blocks of West Vine Street blocks that we likewise own. Upon completion of our construction, we would hope that they might then possibly utilize the street space along all three of these blocks along Vine as and when it is appropriate. Although this will be a decision that the City and the Farmer’s Market will ultimately make, I assure you that they have no greater fans or loyal customers than our families, our employees, our tenants, our guests and our business interests.

Tom, I don’t know what more that we can do than what we have done. We own this property and we now want to develop it into something great that everyone will be proud of. We intend to do this in accordance with the goals, objectives and provisions of the Comprehensive Plan as well as the Courthouse Overlay requirements. Unfortunately, this will require us to demolish those old buildings and we have always been up front with the fact that they will need to go. As I told your paper yesterday, if this were the Victorian Square buildings that needed to be saved, we would step up and do it again, but they are not. These are now but fragments of our past and to rationalize that that Abe Lincoln might have one day shopped in one of them is disingenuous. We too are great proponents of the Bluegrass Trust and we have encouraged their representatives in the past to prioritize as to what is truly important to their preservation efforts, then pick their battles and focus on winning them as opposed to being constantly distracted by skirmishes that can’t or shouldn’t be won.

All we can say is that our improvements will meet and/or to exceed the requirements of all our governmental and regulatory agencies, plus will also be the first major LEED Certified and all green high-rise complex to ever be built in this State. Our investors should be applauded rather than criticized. What should not be forgotten either is that this project will generate over 900 jobs during construction and more than 900 permanent jobs once it is complete. This is compared to the 35 full time employees that have been working during the last year within the entire block. Contrary to what was said by someone at the meeting, even though this we are proposing to use TIF bonds to pay for the public infrastructure portion of this project, (those costs that the City would usually have paid for — i. e. street work, sewers, etc.), the City will still receive millions of dollars during the early years of this project and even more once these bonds are amortized. My frustration is that we have given these people all the reasons in the world to love this project, but they still want more which we can’t deliver. Some appear to have simply decided to try to take our property without paying for it or to redesign a new project for us at our expense. Surely, they understand why we aren’t going to agree to either.

Tom, the bottom line is that we agree with Preserve Lexington that it is now time for the designated representatives of that organization, The Bluegrass Trust and all other appropriate parties to sit down with us and hammer out some intelligent compromises about this project so that it can proceed. Like it or not, sooner or later something new and significant is going to be developed on that block and with the costs of the land being as high as it is and the conditions of the properties as bad as they are, the ultimate result and conclusion will be the same – - that these buildings can’t be restored and that their facades cannot be saved. During the interim, those who oppose our project should not be allowed to confuse the public and our elected officials by suggesting that these can and should be incorporated into this project when they know full well that they can’t be. This is a disservice to the project and the public.

We are still hopeful that in the end, reason and compromise will somehow still prevail and that we can then all move on with the business of making Lexington a better place in which to live, work and raise our families.

Thanks for listening,

Dudley Webb,

for Centrepointe, LLC

Comments Closed



to “Dudley Webb answers CentrePointe critics”

  1.   Joe Says:

    What a jerk. What a blight that project would be on our city’s goal of creating a truly sustainable, pedestrian-friendly and livable downtown. As Webb himself says, they have developed most of the major downtown projects over the last few decades. Does anyone like these projects? Does anyone want another one?

    Please, folks, let’s get together and stop this monstrosity.

  2.   Nonnie Muss Says:

    Wow. I was undecided about the hotel. While our downtown definitely needs a “shot in the arm”, etc., the disdain he shows for the concerns that the community raised is troubling. Obviously this is going to happen according to their plans, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. While I welcome ideas and business to come in and help our struggling downtown, I don’t appreciate this high-minded “it’s already done, it’s going to happen, and we know best” attitude, nor do I like the fact that this has been in the planning for almost two years without community involvement or knowledge. Despite what he says, “reason and compromise” are not on his agenda, and I’m sure that money will make sure that stays the case.

  3.   Sylvia Boggs Says:

    I do not believe that the city council “elected not to adopt” the Downtown Master Plan. I sat in on several planning commission meetings and greenspace meetings last year, and I heard overwhelming consensus for this plan. Today’s Herald Leader article says this project has been 18 months in development already – the Webbs have been operating contrary to the community’s wishes all this time. Does anyone factually know the chronology and reality of the Downtown Master Plan, and our government’s adoption, or not, of this plan? This is the heart of the lies by Mr Webb.

  4.   Nick Says:

    He compares the debate that’s happening now to the discussion over what color the facade of Victorian Square should have been. I’m not exaggerating. This makes me physically ill.

    Honestly, I don’t think it’s possible in this forum for me to write a WTF large enough to fully justify Dudley’s asinine comparison. I don’t care what you think about this issue; You should at least realize that it matters more than the color of a building 20 years ago.

    I’m beginning to wonder why I should even continue to bother with Lexington.

  5.   Nick Says:

    Surely, this is Dudley’s April Fools joke, right?

    Right?

    right.

  6.   Jack Says:

    Dudley Webb did a very thorough job of laying out the reasoning behind and the status of the Center Point Project. I recommend to the parties that are so adamantly opposed to his points to re-read his essay. The answer to “let’s get together and stop this monstrosity…” is right there, in his own words, “…if they truly want to save the old buildings or to do a new development on block like they want, they can and should buy these properties from us at our cost and do it themselves.”

  7.   Patrick Says:

    I continue to be baffled why a $250 million project is the only “viable” one for this project. A smaller hotel/development that incorporates some or all of the existing buildings would cost much less on the front end and still (it would seem) provide a return to the investors, although not as much or as quickly as they may want.

    I would love see someone take him up on his offer to move the Morton building, but where and how? Move the Dame? Can one move a building that big?

    I agree with Jack: now would be a great time for a “white knight” to swoop in and call Webb’s bluff, and agree to buy the buildings and redesign the development accordingly. Unlikely, but would great.

    I also don’t know if his cocksure statements suggesting the development WILL happen anyway is just hubris or knowledge that few hurdles exist beyond the “going through the motions” of the Courthouse Overlay board, the city approving the financing, etc.

  8.   Anya Says:

    Wow. All those words when just two would have conveyed his message. But I suppose the Herald-Leader couldn’t have published the first of those.

    It is unfortunate that Lexington is destined to have an architectural laughingstock similar to the Florida State Capitol building (http://www.coyoteblog.com/photos/uncategorized/capital_2.jpg).

    Again, I have no problem with a sensible design going into that block. But this design simply is not it.

  9.   B Says:

    An out of state hotel chain that may or may not be around in the next 100 years depending on fickle corporate winds and business schemes gets to dictate what our city looks like, and what we pay for? I’m not liking their corporate citizenship already and they haven’t even built their McSkyscraper in the neighborhood! And furthermore, 18 months into design is still not too late to change, if that’s what is needed. Yes, it costs money, but we’re the ones footing a chunk of the bill!

    Does anyone know what the ticket prices were for the Rosenburg property, Dame building, etc.?

  10.   S Says:

    All of this info is from the Fayette County Property Valuation Administrator
    http://www.fayettepva.com/Main/Home.aspx

    Rite Aid Building
    100 W. Main St.
    Owner – Centrepointe LLC
    Purchased – $216,000 in 11/06

    Woolworth Parking Lot
    106 W. Main St.
    Owner – JOESONS INC KEN REALTY INC ET AL
    Purchased – $160,000 in 10/04

    Parking Lot
    126 W. Main St.
    Owner – Town & Country Rentals Inc (Address is 126 S. Upper / Joe Rosenberg)
    Purchased – $1,000,000 in 10/04

    Empty Storefronts (formerly House of Mercy)
    136 W. Main St.
    Owner – TOWN & COUNTRY RENTALS INC (Address is 126 S. Upper / Joe Rosenberg)
    Additional Owners – Bradley Guy TTEE, Bradley Whitney TTEE
    Purchased – $425,000 in 04/02

    Club 141
    140 W. Main St.
    Owner – TOWN & COUNTRY RENTAL INC (Address is 126 S. Upper / Joe Rosenberg)
    Purchased – $162,500 in 12/99

    Club 141
    146 W. Main St.
    Owner – TOWN & COUNTRY RENTAL INC
    Purchased – $162,499 in 4/02
    Value jumped from $162,500 to $460,400 in 2007

    Mad Hatter
    152 W. Main St.
    Owner – CENTREPOINTE LLC
    Purchased – $0 in 11/07
    Value jumped from $165,000 to $190,000 in 2007

    The Dame
    156 W. Main St.
    Owner – Joe Rosenberg
    Purchased – $200,000 in 8/84
    Value jumped from $277,400 to $450,000 in 2007

    Busters
    164 W. Main St.
    Owner – Town & Country Rentals
    Purchased – $160,000 in 12/80
    Value jumped from $225,000 to $302,400 in 2007

    Mia’s
    116 S. Upper St.
    Owner – Joesons Inc
    Purchased – ? (Unknown)
    Value jumped from $174,200 to $322,800 in 2007

    Mia’s
    122 S. Upper St.
    Owner – Joesons Inc
    Purchased – ? (Unknown)
    Value jumped from $72,000 to $108,000 in 2007

    Joe Rosenberg’s
    128 S. Upper St.
    Owner – Joe Rosenberg
    Purchased – $200,000 in 5/83
    Value jumped from $293,800 to $367,200 in 2007

    Triple Crown Lounge
    119 S. Limestone
    Owner – Gordon Cummins
    Purchased – $175,000 in 10/96

    Triple Crown Lounge
    117 S. Limestone
    Owner – Gordon Cummins
    Purchased – $25,000 in 2/97

    Formerly Sam’s Hot Dog Stand
    111 S. Limestone
    Owner – Centrepointe LLC
    Purchased – $165,000 in 4/06
    Value jumped from $80,000 to $165,000 in 2007.

    Formerly some sort of tailor’s shop
    109 S. Limestone
    Owner – Centrepointe LLC
    Purchased – $164,000 in 4/06
    Value jumped from $80,000 to $164,000 in 2007.

  11.   Scott Says:

    I may be wrong, but didn’t the Webb brothers file bankruptcy of some sort in the last 20 years? I know that the law doesn’t require it, but D.Webb seems to be doing quite well these days, he should settle those debts before he’s allowed to move foward like this. Thank God he doesn’t owe me any money, but if he did…. incensed wouldn’t quite describe it.

  12.   S Says:

    You’re thinking of the Kentucky Central case….

    From “The Lane Report” – Legal – January 1998

    “Like the horror movie villain that never seems to be sufficiently killed, the shredded remnants of Kentucky Central Life Insurance Company lurch toward the one thing that may finally bring some resolution to this drawn out tale – litigation.

    In brief, the Kentucky Department of Insurance, under Commissioner Don Stephens, took control of KCL on February 12, 1993, when it stood at a $141 million deficit. The company was later declared insolvent, due in large part to bad real estate loans and consistently questionable real estate decisions….

    Next up, in July, will be developer Dudley Webb, et al. In this case, “al.” embodies Donald and Julie Webb and about 22 other “Webb-related entities.” Over $100 million is sought to cover claims against the Webbs pursuant to numerous promissory notes and personal guarantees. As noted in a 1993 Forbes article, “Kentucky Central lent $143 million– an astounding 32 percent of its loan portfolio – to partnerships headed by the Webbs. The insurance company invested another $26 million in joint ventures with the Webb brothers. During 1990 Kentucky Central refinanced more than half of the Webb loans at lower interest rates and extended the maturities.”

    Other lawsuits name as defendants Wallace and Martha Wilkinson, for their personal guarantee regarding the performance of Park Plaza Associates; ABN AMRO Bank, regarding the Kincaid Towers property; and Mid-America Bank of Louisville and Trust Company, for their allegedly hasty liquidation of KCL securities to pay off part of Dudley Webb’s outstanding debt.

    The cycle of bad and risky decisions appears to have germinated from a seemingly innocuous business strategy: a company sales goal. An unrealistic projection set in motion subsequent overpayment on certain life insurance products, which in turn forced the company to try and squeeze the highest yield they could from their real estate and investment portfolio.”

  13.   Sylvia Boggs Says:

    I’ll buy the Mad Hatter. Will that stop the hotel? $190,000.00 sounds like a bargain to me.
    Anyone else willing to buy these properties at cost, as Mr Webb has asked us to do?

  14.   miller Says:

    Well, well, once again the Webb’s come into town with high promises and a big project they claim will bring all kinds of economic benefits to Lexington. All I can say is, why were these frauds and charlatans allowed back in town??? How many people affiliated with Kentucky Central trust the Webbs? How many contractors that were bankrupted by the Webbs over the years they were bringing so much “economic boom” to the city trust the Webbs? More importantly, how many taxpayers who payed the unpaid bond revenues for the numerous Webb projects of the past that either sat empty or only partially occupied for literally decades trust the Webbs? These two fast talking charlatans have cost the city enough pain, anguish, and money over the years as it is. Lexington doesn’t need over sized, overvalued, over promised, “tax drain” project promoted by the fastest talkers this side of Festival Marketplace. The white elephant 5 star hotel project for the Horse Park is going to cost the city enough as it is. Do we need to add another “Webb fiasco” project to the bill? It’s time to let the Webbs know we aren’t buying any more of the snake oil they are selling send them packing!

  15.   lolliloo Says:

    I would be interested to know the “conditions” for the Fayette Alliance endorsement.

  16.   Tim Says:

    As I look from my office in the Financial Center, I can see the many Webb Companies developments that have brought people and prosperity to a downtown that at one time was withering away. Too many folks fail to acknowledge the overwhelming success of Webb Projects like the Financial Center, The Woodlands, Corporate Centre, The World Trade Center, the First Federal Building and the Radisson, just to name a few. It is easy for those that have never taken a risk to criticize those that do. The postings I see against this project demonstrate no concept of property rights and seem to be made by folks that can’t wait to post something negative they can show all their friends before they rally for the next “cause”. From what I see posted, the property as a whole is worth about $5,000,000. If those against the project pool their money and purchase the property they can “preserve” the block. Why isn’t that going to happen? Because they don’t truly care about the “cause”. They just want to bash those who demonstrate some spirit and motivation to build something to benefit the community and then fly off to flap their wings at something else they deem is not in accord with their higher way of thinking.

  17.   riverrat Says:

    DWebb just loves to hear himself talk…wow…3,014 words. I’m surprised Eblen gave him that much space…he never would have when he was an editor. I appreciated Anya’s comment that “…just two would have conveyed his message.”

    Too late to turn back now after 18 months? Might could have thought about that 18 months ago. And the Dean of Architecture’s comment that the design looked like a “cupped hand giving Lexington the finger”…there’s a fine line between priceless and worthless.

  18.   Tom Eblen Says:

    That’s what I love about this Internet format: There’s plenty of room for everyone to have his or her say. No need to edit things down for a limited amount of newsprint.

    Keep the conversation going….

  19.   Shannon Says:

    I would reply to Mr. Webb’s self serving and sarcastic comment on the “distinguished ‘retired ex-Dean’ of UK’s Architectural School, a ‘self anointed’ expert” that Mr. Webb is himself guilty of “self anointing” in declaring that he and his cohorts are the arbiters of what is in the “best interest of this city and all of its people”. I also question the “many great projects and civic undertakings” the Webb Companies has to their credit. I think someone has a little bit of a god complex.
    I was living in Lexington in the 1980s and the downtown lost most of its charm and character due to our own shortsightedness. We cannot afford to lose anymore of our remaining downtown buildings. I really can’t believe we are back in Webbville again…

  20.   A Says:

    First of all, I appreciate that Mr. Webb has taken the time to listen and respond to concerns raised by opponents of this project. I take issue with Tim’s comment, however, that the critics don’t really care about the cause. Not everyone has the capital, individually or collectively, to finance the purchase and rehabilitation of such a large piece of property. While no one is doing the opposition a favor by resorting to public name calling, who says citizens shouldn’t be able to criticize something that will have a major, lasting impact on Lexington? Private property? Yes. But why can’t we ask for something better, especially when Tax Increment Financing is proposed? Also, I’ve read many comments over the past few days that call the project’s critics elitist. I’m not sure how championing a block that caters to a middle class clientele and calling for the preservation of historic buildings that aren’t white columned mansions is elitist. The development of a center that will cater mainly to the wealthy without taking the concerns of the larger community into consideration is in fact where you will find true elitism. While the project’s opponents may seem reactionary to some of you, keep in mind that some citizens attempted to start a dialogue about the project over a year ago when rumors of it first began to circulate, but it was almost impossible to obtain information about the proposal until it was presented to the public a few months ago.

  21.   DD Says:

    The CentrePointe project is just another example of what is by now a tried-and tanked approach to revitalizing downtowns. Convention centers, hotels, trinket shops and restaurants have gotten us nothing but service-sector, low-wage, no benefit jobs catering to a fickle business elite. That’s what we currently have, so we know it hasn’t worked. Worse, it is well below the level of imagination and creativity we’ve seen in the discussions we’ve had about a revitalized downtown.

    What happened to our plans to build a viable, livable downtown? We need places to live, places to work, places to buy everyday things like groceries, and hardware, and clothing. We need banks and libraries and medical facilities and drugstores. We need safe, affordable, reliable public transportation. We need public schools and post offices and parks. And we need a robust infrastructure to support it all.

    You want to invest $250 million in something meaningful for 2010? The last thing that comes to mind is a luxury hotel.

  22.   daniel Says:

    At least Webb is putting himself out there and saying this is what we are doing and why we are doing it. Maybe his idea is not the best but at least it is something. My question to opponents of this project is what’s your big idea? You seem to care enough to pick apart the CentrePoint project and you seem to speak with great authority on how this project will ruin the city but you are completely incapable of offering a viable solution yourself. My challenge to Preserve Lexington and others is come up with a plan for that block, you have had plenty of time since its been mostly vacant and slowing decaying for the last 20 years, and propose it to the city, propose it to Webb, send it the Herald-Leader. Then we can have a real discussion about downtown Lexington.

  23.   Carrie Says:

    My question to Preserve Lexington and others that are opposed to CentrePoint is, what is the plan? A plan needs to be devised that is clear and compromising. I have never heard interest in this block before the threat of it no longer existing. I am not a strong supporter of CentrePoint or the Webb Brothers and I believe that if they are going to use the reason of “private property” then CentrePoint needs to be funded privately. If the taxpayers/local government are funding this venture then the Webb Brothers should have to answer to the public and a compromise needs to be reached.
    As far as the condition of the block-it is almost unsafe and dilapitated. I do not see how it passes fire inspections and the like. Ever since Lynagh’s Club closed, The Dame is the only choice in Lexington to see national, non main stream, touring bands in Lexington. I never enjoy The Dame itself while I might enjoy the music despite horrible sound. The walls seem to be made of plywood, the restrooms are behind the stage to which you have to fight the crowd to get to, the bar is scarcely stocked and drinks are expensive. The Dame can afford to be a subpar performance venue because they are the only one in town. Buster’s resembles the scene from Drugstore Cowboy when a body falls through the ceiling. It comes with uneven pool tables on a sloping floor. My point is that these buildings have been like this for years, no one has put any effort into improving them or even talked about it until now. It is like when my dog won’t play with a toy until another dog shows interest and then she is like ‘Oh but I love that toy.’ This block has not been shown love for some time now. What will happen to them if they are to be spared? Will they be at least restored so they will not end up being inhabitable because of neglect? Will Preserve Lexington and other people that have been shocked by CentrePoint care when it is over when they have not cared before? Would people care if there were more music venues other than The Dame with a bar that has a good jukebox next to it? The only reason that CentrePoint is being built is because of the 2010 games. Well, what happens when the games are over? Luxury hotels and luxury lofts are being built to accomodate people for these games and what we will be left with are places the people of Lexington cannot afford to stay at or live in. That is the problem not the developing of Lexington, not the model of CentrePoint and not the historical buildings which will be demolished that everyone has let rot.

  24.   K-Rock Says:

    kudos to dudley webb for taking the time and energy to address these ungrateful yahoos with nothing to do but kick up sand. if you all think that Centrepointe is the brainchild of the world equestrian games then that alone shows what you know. Foster Ockerman said it best in his editorial when he said (to paraphrase) that a city either goes forward or backward- it never stays the same. if centerpointe is not builit then watch downtown lexington wither. good luck getting ANY developer to risk his/her neck dealing with downtown lexington. say helloooo to urban sprawl because it is a whole lot easier. it is very foolish to poo poo this plan for a green LEED-certified building when it places lexington on the map of progressive cities. the critics seem to not see the forest for the trees. stop complaining about the way the building looks- the webbs could never please everyone and for goodness sake it is THEIRS. get excited about the possibilities it could bring to downtown lexington- a roof top bar, luxury hotel rooms, a book store, wine shop, and who know what other exciting retail could be lured downtown with the prospect of being in a progressive green building with parking disguised underground!!! in addition, lexington could really use the jobs, tax money, and dollars spent downtown by more bodies at a time when recession is looming. if you love lexington you should get on our knees and thank anyone who wants to spend their own money to stimulate our economy and preserve horsefarms. the above comments are clearly from people who do not understand how the world works.

  25.   Josie Says:

    K-Rock – You have 2 points wrong in your arguement. 1. If the 2010 games were not coming here then CentrePoint would not be being built along with the Luxury Loft condiminiums popping up all over downtown. Just like the hotel at the Horse Park, this is a 2010 hotel. Have you not heard the talk of this debate has to end soon so CentrePoint will be finished in time? 2. Since tax payers/the city will be paying for the building of CentrePoint, it is not Dudley Webbs. What do you think all this hoopla is about?

  26.   K-Rock Says:

    no, josie, you are the one wrong on these points. most financing is over 30 years and i seriously doubt the webbs think they can pay off centerpointe with revenue from the world games. if they want to have it done by then it is only because they want downtown to be beautiful and not a construction site. they want to improve things for the community to enjoy. and, if it were my money, i would probably- and rightfully- want to capture that revenue stream. they built the financial center in 18 months so there is little reason to think they could not at least complete the retail and hotel portions of the project. further, the KHP intends to have year round world class equestrian events with completion of the multi-million climate-controlled indoor arena. there is no reason, once again, to think that hotel will not be full of participants and spectators of equestrian sport year-round for years to come. further, tax incentives such as the TIF exist to encourage developers to think more broadly with infrastructure concerns in mind. tax dollars will only fund infrastructure such as underground parking which, frankly, is expensive but much more beautiful. the webbs could to it alone and forget the general public entirely and build 3 floors of cheap, overground parking which we would have to look at. people would of course hate that even more so be careful what you wish for. i promise you i get what all the hoopla is about.

  27.   e-mac Says:

    Mr. Webb, if you really cared what the community thought would we not have seen images of your hotel in the paper a little sooner?

    There is no doubt in my mind, that you think what you are doing for Lexington is going to be good. There is one thing that’s for sure, it’s going to be ugly. I am not saying this out of any malice. I do not know you personally, but I have seen the building your planning to erect and I have one question, “did the architects take any time to take a look at the buildings around the area before they picked up a pencil?

    or did they just say, “OK, we have this much space, let’s start drawin it up boyz!”

    quote:
    “The first problem is that we have already hired Architects and Engineers who have been working on this project for more than 18 months now and that we already have contractual obligations with and to them. He also points out that J. W. Marriott will not even consider allowing one of their proposed properties to become a part of such a competition. They have their own design standards, proprietary criteria as well as Architects of preference who design their hotels. Fortunately, they have already arranged for us to work with one of their best on this project and they certainly don’t want us to now throw him out and start over. Although he was appreciative of the idea, he simply feels that it is now far too late for us to go back and start over.”

    No *%^& it’s too late! This is one of the main problems! and you say 18 months? Maybe they should take another 18 and make it more representative of, at least, the buildings that will sit across the street from it?

    Who cares if it’s going to be a 10 star hotel, if it doesn’t fit the downtown architecture and character it should not be built. Why couldn’t you guys go for a classier company that would create a hotel more representative of the area? Like a W or something?

    quote:
    “Our investors should be applauded rather than criticized. What should not be forgotten either is that this project will generate over 900 jobs during construction and more than 900 permanent jobs once it is complete. This is compared to the 35 full time employees that have been working during the last year within the entire block.”

    Are these 900 jobs part of the “grand scheme of things” or just during the world games? I would also like to know whether or not the employees will be full-time employee’s who have benefits or will they comprise mostly of part-time, low-end service jobs?

    Mr. Webb, do the right thing here, seriously. You seem to suggest you have no control of such things of design, who occupies the area on the block….etc. You do. You can. Don’t build a building that does not fit, please. Build a building that will allow the already established businesses to stay. You can do this, really, if you want to do this. Other city developers take into an account it’s universities and colleges. It is your job to be respectful of the community that exists in the area.

    Take a moment, stand in the middle of your block and look across the street at the beautiful architecture of those small buildings that your gigantor of of hotel will only shadow.

    Seriously, think for a moment about the imprint you have the potential to make. Go to any thriving college community and you will find many Dames close to hotels. People like to be able to listen to live bands/dj’s and have a beer. Not everyone that is going to be a guest will want classical music and horses.

    Mr. Webb, you seem perturbed by some of the people who want to save the block and those feelings can possibly make you more more ambitious to get this thing going but please, speaking as a person who is doing their best to see it both ways, take the time to change the plans and make it fit…(in all lights, not just aesthetically.)

  28.   Greggie Says:

    Some of us are still old enough to remember what a disaster Festival Market place was and how that turned out for taxpayers. I guess Dudley Webb isn’t embarassed about that but ask Scotty B. if it helped his political aspirations!
    I just think that a project like this should be built with as little cost to the taxpayers as possible. We have enough Corporate Welfare in this country!
    Also, why wern’t other locations considered or the building designed to accent the current buildings and save them like at Victorian Square? Lexington Mall would have been an excellent site, close to town without having the addition of traffic in town. Sounds like they just showed up and expected the city of Lexington to give them a blank check without any discussion on this project.
    Thank God for Jim Gray speaking his mind. The building is ugly; It will be like erecting a giant penis in the heart of Lexington! More competition is definitely needed in the design and structure of this project.

  29.   Su Yon Yi Says:

    This is getting ridiculous! Here we have a guy who is trying to actually do something good for our community – and bring jobs – and taking a big financial risk. I like the idea of actually having a rooftop bar on one of the sides of the building. I am a 30 something young professional – I pay taxes – and I say let’s get this thing going. These phallic references are really getting juvenille. All skyscraper buildings are phallic. I say let this guy build as tall as he wants to go with it!

  30.   e-mac Says:

    “I am a 30 something young professional – I pay taxes – and I say let’s get this thing going. These phallic references are really getting juvenille. All skyscraper buildings are phallic. I say let this guy build as tall as he wants to go with it!”

    What is “juvenile” is designing a building that is not representative of the space it encompasses. It is neglectful, egotistical, and most of all, disrespectful to the architects that built this city.

    and concerning the phallic banter, there are buildings that could be seen as being way more phallic than others…..this one has nuts sister….or brother….whatever….

    and people make this connection due to the absurdity of the design. You can tell the main architect of this project is from Atlanta….and not from Lexington….

    you know Lexington, right, the place where you live and pay taxes? but don’t worry, you’ll be able to drink your drink amongst the good ole’ kentucky clouds…while all of us “juveniles” will be dressed as crabs during the world games dancing in the streets below.

    it will be beautiful, really…a modern day tragedy turned comedy…turned epic, amidst the heaven of “taxpayin professionals who want a drink at the top”.

    whooooooooooohoooooooooooo…..;get your wallets out for this one and leave your pride and dignity behind….

  31.   K-Rock Says:

    you know, e-mac, intellectual snobbery is really not something to hang your hat on and it is certainly no better than the “taxpayin’ professionals”. in fact, it is a lot worse, b/c these taxpayin’ professionals are the ones that make the city prosper while you bloviate. this country is not socialist. not everyone can get their way all the time. so get a job, make money, and buy your own block and sink money into preserving it. that is how the world works and that is how you get your way.

  32.   e-mac Says:

    dude…it was a joke, get over it.

    I have been a tax-payin professional for the last 5 years in Lexington and after living a being a tax-payin professional in Manhattan and LA for awhile, think this city can do a little better.

    Lexington is special and my friends who come to visit from the coasts like it because it has character…

    bloviate you say? hehhehehhehe…..
    now really hon, who is the “intellectual snob” now?

    have a wonderful day taking yourself so serious.

    word.

  33.   bfrn Says:

    With Mr. Webb’s insinuation that some of the remarks critical of Webb Companies and CentrePoint border on libel and slander, I think he is casting a chilling effect on freedom of speech and the exchange of ideas.

    Freedom of speech still has its limits, it seems.

  34.   e-mac Says:

    yes it does, and it’s terrifying…but no one cares anymore, they spend too much time watching tv, buying kitchen appliances and doing their best to ignore a mess of a war that we are still fighting.

    on a more serious note, however, it’s probably not a good idea to listen to me bfrn, I’m just a socialist who wants to get her way all the time and stands around bloviatin’…..while others work to support me a my juvenile homies.

  35.   K-Rock Says:

    freedom of speech does not protect libelous speech. that is why those laws exist. is it so much to ask for people to not make things up or not make false and damaging accusations? i am certain you would not care for it if false remarks were aimed at you. would you appreciate it if people flagrantly and falsely stated that you had declared bankrupcy? opinions are fine- but stating incorrect facts to damage one’s reputation is not. it is not a small thing. i find it more terrifying that that is so poorly understood. with rights come responsibilities.

  36.   e-mac Says:

    your right k-rock…

    believe it or not…
    I am really being serious now…
    and you may not believe me because of the way I handled your last entry…but I was a little offended of the generalization you assumed..
    whether or not you care…I do not consider myself to be a socialist…I refuse to buy into any set of schema, indoctrination, or organization.

    bfrn failed to mention anything about bankruptcy…Are you referring to the company that filed bankruptcy and then wanted money from the Webb’s for supporting one of their developments during this time?

    “with rights come responsibilities.”

    It depends who is making the rules. If Martin Luther King had gone by the ” responsibility of rights/rules” we could be living in a very different country at the moment.

    I am not being facetious here…I just think using this line is a little naive…(and I am not trying to put you down or make fun of you….I swear…) I think we are forgetting the most important issues here.
    money and community…

    build a hotel….
    (it’s bound to be built)
    but by god, don’t build it without thinking about everyone else involved…
    and you may own the property, but when you get into the issue of tax-payin dollars…you gotta expect questions, conflict, and unintentional slander.

    I think you ought to consider, and possible you have, that people may not possess the proper information concerning the trial that seemed to last forever….

    when emotions are high crazy things occur….
    1. (wars..hint. hint…the one we are in and getting ready to be in…)
    2. buildings are built that are not complimentary of the architecture already established.
    and 3. people spout off information they have heard and not have had time to research…

    this shouldn’t happen, but we sometimes do not know the context it alludes itself with.

    if Mr. Webb mentioned that some of the remarks bordered on slander and could be liable, he is playing the defense…when, in actuality he has the perfect moment to explain the situation and step back to realize that emotions concerning taxpayer funds of this development is high and volatile. (and for good reason.)

    18 months or not…they have rushed and planned a project …period..
    a project that people have to pay for…and some do not wish to pay….

    I am still dumbfounded at the remark Mr. Webb gave concerning his lack of control over the whole mess….

    that is why it’s a little scary…I am getting ready to bet on someone who expects me to pay out…and admits his lack of control over the whole shebang…

    the only question I have that I demand be answered, as a taxpayer, is did the architect/s in Lexington reiterate to the architect/s in Atlanta that the major farmers market of Lexinton will be destroyed due to their design….?

    seriously, did they know this?

    or did they just fill dimensions?

  37.   Tim Says:

    E-mac. Seriously. Get some medication.

  38.   e-mac Says:

    good one tim…

  39.   e-mac Says:

    “They just want to bash those who demonstrate some spirit and motivation to build something to benefit the community and then fly off to flap their wings at something else they deem is not in accord with their higher way of thinking.”

    maybe you should you think about it.
    seriously.

  40.   Dennis Webb Says:

    Mr. Webb needs to explain how he has determined that based on a cost-benefit analysis, the Fayette County taxpayers and City of Lexington owe him thirty years of tax avoidance on this project. Both Mayor Newberry and Vice-Mayor Gray are being derelict in their duties by not demanding a cost-benefit analysis of this project. I’m a taxpayer and I have a demand, “SHOW ME THE MONEY!” It should be fairly easy to determine how much proprty taxes the Webb bros. should be responsible for every year on a chunk of real estate that costs $250,000,000. Any UK Business/Econ professor could probably crank the numbers out in less than 30 minutes. I don’t think anybody will be able to prove that the avoidance of property taxes for 30 years on a 250,000,000 dollar project will be offset by the revenues generated. This is especially true of the low wage hospitality industry jobs being created. Also if this project does move forward with property tax avoidance intact, the Webb Company/Marriot Corp. should be required to pay a living wage, currently about $11.00 per hr., and full health care and retirement benefits. I challenge Webb and Marriot to do so which will prove that they are really acting in the the best interests of the community at large. I seriously doubt that they will accept my living wage and full benefits challenge.

  41.   K-Rock Says:

    e-mac, since the only question you demand to be answered, as a taxpayer, is regarding the farmer’s market i feel compelled to point out that the saturday farmer’s market has existed entirely due to the generosity of the webb companies (who owns 2 of the 3 blocks) and mr. rosenberg/webbs who own the 3rd. no one is getting rid of the farmer’s market, although they have always been looking for a permanent location, and if they leave that location it will most likely not be because of the webbs. even despite the traffic hassle and trash that i am sure it generates every weekend. i am sure there is an element of vandalism and liability as well since i personally have witnessed people damaging the property and playing in the webb companies fountain. this is a perfect example of how the lexington community only wants to throw stones and be hateful when oftentimes a simple thank you would go a long way. knowing the facts before criticizing would serve the bloggers of this site well. i am sure these issues are being worked out but if you are that concerned, perhaps you should contact those in charge of the farmer’s market and find out how they are being treated.

  42.   e-mac Says:

    actually, I would like to have them all answered…
    you will find a breakdown at the bottom.

    thanks.

    while your at it, could you do me a favor and answer Dennis Webb’s also…?

    before I stop…I must point out your ever so lovely comments concerning the farmers market as a “traffic hassle” and trash generator.

    we are talking about a space that helps to support LOCAL FARMERS…..!*@^$*@*$!

    and the rest of your bloviatin (the fountain banter) doesn’t have zilch to do with the topic!

    I AM NOT A STONE THROWER! I am someone who is concerned and asking valid questions…..

    here they are, go at it. Your obviously someone who is either related, involved, or extremely close to the family……

    Mr. Webb, if you really cared what the community thought would we not have seen images of your hotel in the paper a little sooner?

    do not know you personally, but I have seen the building your planning to erect and I have one question, “did the architects take any time to take a look at the buildings around the area before they picked up a pencil?

    and you say 18 months? Maybe they should take another 18 and make it more representative of, at least, the buildings that will sit across the street from it?

    Why couldn’t you guys go for a classier company that would create a hotel more representative of the area? Like a W or something?

    re these 900 jobs part of the “grand scheme of things” or just during the world games?

    I would also like to know whether or not the employees will be full-time employee’s who have benefits or will they comprise mostly of part-time, low-end service jobs?

    bloviate you say? hehhehehhehe…..
    now really hon, who is the “intellectual snob” now?

    e you referring to the company that filed bankruptcy and then wanted money from the Webb’s for supporting one of their developments during this time?

    the only question I have that I demand be answered, as a taxpayer, is did the architect/s in Lexington reiterate to the architect/s in Atlanta that the major farmers market of Lexinton will be destroyed due to their design….?

    seriously, did they know this?

    or did they just fill dimensions?

  43.   Josie Says:

    All this drama over an event that is going to last 12 days. Get real. During the year, the Hyatt and Radisson are not even near capacity. Why would this luxury, more expensive hotel be? I am sure if CentrePoint is built, after the 2010 Games we will see what a dumb idea this was.

  44.   e-mac Says:

    hey..

    k-rock…Josie also has a question that maybe you could answer…

    thanks.

  45.   K-Rock Says:

    as i told you before i am a downtown business owner so i am quite familiar with all of these issues. and i too love the farmers market and supporting farmers as i shop there regularly. what you are not acknowledging as the property owner’s viewpoint. i am certain- based on the fact that the farmers market continues in its current location- that the webbs also like it. at the very least they deserve a thank you because i know i get trash and vandalism. so if you look at it like that they are very relevant issues when you are the one who has to clean it all up- including gum.

    i am tired of this blog because it is clearly foolish (probably young and therefore forgiven) people who just do not understand or appreciate the realities of the world. all of these questions have been answered somewhere on this blog- mostly by dudley webb himself (josie, please see mr. webb’s comments for your answers). for now, i am done beating my head against a wall….

  46.   e-mac Says:

    K-rock…I assumed you did not like the farmers market due to your negative comments about it…I apologize for jumping to unnecessary conclusions.

    and I thank the Webbs for their appreciation of what the farmers market does for local farmers and the citizens who wish to support them.

    about your comment concerning “Probably young and therefore forgiven) people who do not understand or appreciate the realities of the world”…I am at a standstill.

    Most of us realize the buildings will come down, what is incredible is that there is a pre-conceived notion of the “lack of control” the Webb’s have concerning the design of the building.

    Instead of “beating your head against a wall” why can’t you do your best to understand what we are trying to say….your way too angry, defensive, and (after the “therefore forgiven” comment)…scarily too righteous….

    (which is mind-boggling in itself).

    saying that the gum and trash is a problem is a little unfounded…have you ever driven by the UK stadium after a football game? Now that is vandalism….and how many adults are spitting out their gum and throwing away their trash while they shop on Saturday? I can’t believe you would use this as clout for your argument against the farmers market…

    you want to talk about the realities of the world? How bout I invite you over for dinner sometime and we can have along discussion about how many friends my husband and I have lost in this god forsaken war…?

    “i am tired of this blog because it is clearly foolish (probably young and therefore forgiven)”

    I am still mortified by this comment….you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, in any fashion, be you a downtown business owner….or be you not.

    for someone who is so willing to spout out socialist insinuations and harbor negative assumptions towards people who do not think exactly the way they do…..

    maybe you’ll grow up one day…

    maybe not…
    I will promise you one thing, though, when this ugly monstrosity does get built keep your razor blade and goo-gone handy because you will still be scrapin the gum off the concrete…

    only this time you won’t be able to blame any of the dirty hippies who shop at the farmers market or the smelly indie-buster goers…

    you’ll have to find someone else to blame…(which shouldn’t be a problem for you…maybe you can blame the “commies” who visit the world games in 2010.)

    (they will be the ones taking pictures neXt to all the “socialists”)….

    just for fun.

  47.   Tim Says:

    K – Rock,
    I didn’t think you said anything about hippies. I enjoy the farmers market and have purchased items there on multiple occassions. It is very nice of the Webbs and Rosenberg to allow the use of their property for the public good. Like many other good things they have done, and continue to do, the joint venture with the farmers market is forgotten in favor of the opportunity to lash out at these fine folks for demonstrating their good intentions. I also have to agree with you about the trash and sometimes, destruction of property. I’ve seen vendors lashing tents to the “historic” iron rails of the Rosenberg building, which I believe has resulted in a loosening of those fixtures. I have also seen citizens bring canines to the market and fail to clean up after them. These are a few examples where these property owners make sacrifices to help out a vital part of the community in the farmers market.
    Some unsolicited advice….don’t eat at e-macs.

  48.   E. Weber Says:

    E-mac – Not a well thought out analysis. Why don’t you take logic 101 next semester and get back with the blog after that. You must be a freshman. Wait, by then all of the storefronts will be dark 24 hours a day and not just open 4 hours a day 3 days a week. Get a grip.

  49.   123 sassy Says:

    I think the dame is going to close premanently any day now. Watch for it.

  50.   K-Rock Says:

    thank you tim. that is all i was saying. a rational mind could obviously tell i have nothing against the farmers market. i was not trying to create an argument against anything. i was only trying to make a point that you made more eloquently. i think we can tell who is angry here. i had to come out of retirement briefly to let you know that i laughed out loud- i WILL take your advice.

  51.   123sassy Says:

    Mortified means extremely embarrased. Did you really mean to use that word Mac and Cheeze? Give up and work on your term paper. You really need these 3 credits for your blog class.

  52.   e-mac Says:

    your all too funny for words…

    obviously you are all friends…

    the hippie comment is derived from k-rocks unfounded socialist comment that if any of you ever used any information from 101 class you have taken from the past, you would know to read the statements before you proceed to comment or argue ANYTHING.

    none of you understand…and that’s what it comes down to..

    “.don’t eat at e-macs.”

    tim, your a moron…period..

    E-Weber…take the time to actually argue why I should “get grip” and how my “analysis” is not well thought out and maybe I would take the time to take this comment seriously…..

    If you actually knew what you were rebutting you would realize I understand the buildings are coming down…honey, I worked in the music industry in LA for a bit and like going out for live music..I am a professional and well exceed the “freshman” comment you so easily threw up during your insult moment…

    none of you care because you do not participate in any of this…and that’s OK…but what all of you are forgetting here is that we live in a COLLEGE TOWN…and although none of you have experience in caring about what other people may want to do besides your pitiful selves….

    so be it!

    it’s going to be built…we get that….the businesses that are down there should be allowed to stay…and property owners can make that happen if they wish to…

    “sassy”

    yes…I am embarrassed that a fellow human being could be so ignorant….
    sassy….I made more money last year than you will make in a lifetime…

    get over it.

  53.   Josie Says:

    K-Rock,
    I did read Dudley Webb’s letter. Several times in fact. It said nothing about why CentrePoint would be successful when the Radisson and Hyatt are rarely at capacity. I do not believe for one second that people do not stay in Lexington because of lack of hotels. And remeber this will be a Marriot which is in the same league as a Radisson and a Hyatt. i do not have a problem with growth or the tearing down of a dilapitated block but I do have a problem with a very expensive project that likely will fail after the 2010 games. Does anyone know if the luxury condos (aka apartments) that are popping up all over town are selling well? From what I have heard they are not.

  54.   Tim Says:

    e-mac,
    Did you really try to legitimize your view and diminish another person by stating “I made more money last year than you will make in a lifetime”? I may be a moron but that is just crazy elitist talk. That would be the same as me assuming your work “in the music industry in LA for a bit..” was that of a groupie to a rock band. A pretty presumptious and superior attitude when it comes to comparing paychecks. Its also presumptious and somewhat paranoid to assume people that post opposite views must be “friends”.
    I think some folks, apparrently mistakenly, presume you must be a freshman in college by the way you write. Please stop writing or take the time to think before you blog.

  55.   e-mac Says:

    oh Tim…

    None of you get anything…The salary comment was placed there to play into this whole “illusion” of what grade I’m in..

    those comments were ridiculous, so I added my own…

    as for an elitist, ok, I’ll give you that one.

    the way I write? I write in snippets- which has zero to do with what grade level a person is in..
    come on…and to ask me to stop writing “or take the time to think”…

    Point out where I have not been thinking. Seriously, do it. I have an architecture friend in New York who has visited Lexington and looked at the proposal and says it’s a shame they are going to proceed…there are many people who feel the building is not complimentary to other beautiful structures downtown.

    They could find a way to let the dame, busters, and mias stay..if they wanted to.

    and the groupie in a rock band was pretty funny…
    but what is that?

    a “sophomorish” attack?

    heheheh..(is the hehehehhe…freshman-like?)

    tim, sassy, and even k-rock…have a beautiful day and an even better weekend.

  56.   David Feather Says:

    Consider this: Let’s say some fortunate soul owned a stool sample from John Hunt Morgan’s prized horse. Couldn’t that also be considered as “historic” property? Does that mean we should fight to preserve it? Be realistic friends…just because something is old; it doesn’t mean we have a sacred obligation to try to preserve it. The same thing applies for this block of “structures”. I am not a fan or modern architecture. I was a history major at the University of Kentucky and I own two log homes dating back to 1792 so obviously I do love history and believe in preservation. The simple fact is however that there is nothing in this block worth preserving. The Webb brothers are attempting to do Lexington a HUGE favor. Hopefully everyone who is fighting against this project has taken a close look at the sheer ugliness of what exists there at this moment in time. It is my fondest hope that my fellow Lexingtonians will get this out of their system and allow the Webb Company to do what they do best. Create jobs, create revenue for our city, and most of all create something that in time everyone in Lexington will be proud of. In short; if you want to preserve something…pick buildings that are worth preserving.