Is Kentucky a Southern state?
If you want to start an endless debate in Kentucky, that question is a good place to start.
On Saturday at 4 p.m., I’ll be participating in a panel discussion on the question organized by James Klotter, Kentucky’s state historian and a history professor at Georgetown College.
I’m preparing my remarks Friday, so help me out and comment below. Is Kentucky Southern? Midwestern? A mixture? What do you think, and why?
The panel discussion will be at the Lexington Public Library’s Central Library Theater downtown. It is part of the Library’s Forever Free: Lincoln’s Journey to Emancipation exhibit. Other related activities Saturday include:
• Lincoln’s Lexington Walking Tour - 12:30 p.m. and 4 p.m. Meet in front of the Central Library.
• Children’s Activity: Civil War Cyphers and Codes - 2 p.m. in the Library’s children’s department.
• Civil War Living History: Soldiers and Cannons and Horses, oh my! Phoenix Park - 12 p.m. to 7 p.m.
• A Word from President Lincoln with Jim Sayre - 3 p.m. at the Central Library Theater.
• Saxton’s Cornet Band - 5:30 p.m. in Phoenix Park.
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August 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Kentucky is a hybrid state. We have elements of Southern culture, Midwestern manufacturing and weather from all over creation. I’ve always been struck by how many people from the Northeast and Upper Midwest think of Kentucky as being a truly southern state. Heck, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi — those are really southern states. Deep south. Kentucky sticks more than its toe into the southern tub — we’re probably wet up to the knee or a bit more.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
As a native Kentuckian, I truly believe that we are a southern state. We aren’t as deep as Georgia and Alabama but neither is Virginia or North Carolina. So much of our culture is based on hybrid southern values. If we could just cut off Ohio and Indinana, we would be sitting pretty.
My family considers Kentucky as the “Mid South”. To me, I am proud to be a southerner and I am happy to follow those values.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I also consider Kentucky a Southern state. The South is not all the same, there are differing parts of Southern culture.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
If you’re in the SEC, you’re a Southern state.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Yes, in fact, I’ll contend that the South begins in Cincinnati.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Being from Northern Ohio originally — I am a graduate student at UK — I always believed Kentucky to be a southern state, although that may have just been my Yankee bias. But even after living here for two years, I still maintain that it’s Southern. Not, perhaps, Deep South like Georgia or Alabama, but Southern.
Besides, if the President of the Confederacy attented a school in the state, it’s kind of hard to talk yourself into the Union.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Lexington is barely farther south than Louisville, but much more southern. Why? Because it’s farther east?
I think it has to do with Lex. being land locked. It didn’t enjoy the diversification/cultural explosion that L-ville did once the Ohio River started dropping European immigrants there.
I’m from No. Ky. and I can verify that there is nothing southern about that part of the state.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Jill, Kentucky remained in the Union during the war. Three quarters of Kentuckians that participated in the Civil War fought to retain the Union. Presently I am working in Mississippi, and I can tell you that Kentucky, at least the central part is more midwestern that southern. As a native of Lexington, I have always felt a more kinship with southwestern Ohio than any other state. Maybe that is because I have family that are native of Ohio, Pennsylvania.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Yes, Kentucky is a Southern State. We speak with more of a Southern accent. We cook more Southern food. We have good warm sunshine that does not exist in the north. Remember too, the “Sun shines bright in My Old Kentucky Home.”
August 28th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Kentucky? A southern state? Puh-lease. I live in Georgia and I can tell you for a fact, no one in the “true” south considers the Bluegrass state southern. Kentuckians can believe that line all they want, but the south is Georgia, ‘bama, Mississippi, South Carolina, North Carolina (barely) and Tennessee. Sorry Kentuckians, but the club is full.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I’m a recently transplanted Michigander, and to me, it seems southern. Maybe not as southern as JAY’s Confederate south, but southern nonetheless.
One difference I see from my stint in central Florida is that Kentucky was part of the Union in the Civil War, so we don’t see as much of an identity as Southerners; no Stars and Bars as a sign of both cultural independence from the north and a bit of white pride. People here are Kentuckians more than they’re Southerners.
However, we do have the slave history and the Jim Crow history.
On the good side, you have lots of good churches, sweet tea as a default, and southern hospitality. Not to mention the horse industry that gives Kentucky a more cosmopolitan feel than the rest of the south save metro Atlanta.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I think Kentucky is part midwestern, part upper south and part southern. The Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati area is midwestern as is Louisville/Jefferson County, although with a significant southern influence that is not present in northern Kentucky, where I grew up. Most of the rest of the state I consider mostly southern but not completely, except for the far western Jackson Purchase. I consider Lexington a mostly southern city. Kentucky is a border state, a very interesting and beautiful one at that.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Born & raised in KY - a southerner. I would be offended to be considered otherwise, even by a ‘true’ southern snob! Bet you don’t have a monument to Jefferson Davis and no ones iced tea is any sweeter than my wife’s. Lived in G’town for a while and can only guess Mr. Klotter is not a native or he would not even have to pose the question. N. KY is fartherest from being southern, well, because it is the most northern. Too many Yank’s moving in to get a taste of the good life begins to ruin it after so many years. Couldn’t even write y’all on the water tower but Mall if OK? Indiana is surely Midwest, full of labor union people. I live just across the great river now in Indiana. Night & day difference just crossing that Ohio and I long for the day to retire in the true south of KY.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
It seems like the “golden triangle” — Northern Kentucky, Louisville and then over to Lexington, resembles the Midwest more than the South. On the other hand, central KY and eastern KY resemble the South more than our Northern neighbors.
August 28th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I was born in Michigan, lived in North Carolina for 5 years, graduated from UK and lived in Kentucky for 15 years. I now live in Iowa. Kentucky is definitely a southern state, and most certainly not midwestern or northern.
I believe the standard of living, colloquialisms and basic reputation make Kentucky southern without a doubt. Of course my opinion is jaded because I love KY so much and lived there for so many years.
August 28th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
I live in south-central Ky and we are definitely “southern” here. As a matter of fact, even though Ky didn’t officially leave the Union during the Civil War, Ky is represented by one of the 13 stars on the Confederate flag. Even though most Ky men fought for the North, many of the high ranking Southern officers were native Kentuckians.It seems as if south and west of the Green river was Confederate Ky and the rest was Union Ky except for the Bluegrass region. Also, Hollywood seems to refer Ky as southern. You can see plenty of Confederate flags around this part of Ky.
August 28th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I live in the Jackson Purchase and everything around here is definitely in the South. For me, the Deep South means the Gulf states, GA, So. CAR; the Mid South covers ARK, TN, No. CAR, and the High South is KY, So. MO, WVA, VA.
August 28th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Kentucky is a Southern state. The central star on the Confederate flag represents Kentucky, Jefferson Davis, the one and only president of the Confederacy was a Kentuckian. Also being that we are part of the Southeastern Conference is another reason. I personally, am a central Kentuckian but consider myself a Southerner. I was raised in Southern ways, everything from food, culture, music, and my religion (Southern Baptist). Bourbon, Bluegrass music, fried chicken (hence the founding of KFC), hot browns, sweet tea, accents and Appalachian dialects, as well as Kentuckians fond love of our state make us Southern. Also there is a lot of Antebellum architecture in our state.
I personally consider us a part of the upland South, a border state. There is no way we can be considered northern, and maybe Louisville and Northern Kentucky can be considered mid-western but that is probably b/c of imports from those other cultures. I also recently got married to a born and raised Georgia Peach, who’s folks are from North Carolina and Tennessee respectively and they all agree that Kentucky is Southern.
August 28th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
My grandmother was born and raised in Newport, KY before relocating to Winchester, KY as a 13 yr. old girl. And she is still about as Southern as it gets. Even northern Kentucky in the older the days before the major growth and Yankee imports of Cincinnati was pretty Southern in culture according to her. I’m pretty passionate about being a Southerner myself and have had to fight this battle many times over with folks from the Deep South who’ve never even been to Kentucky. Also, most of the media like mentioned before considers Kentucky southern. Myself along with many others I’ve spoken with believe the modern day Mason-Dixon line is pretty much the Ohio river. We are also directly lateral from Virginia, a major part of the South during the “war between the states”. Being that Kentucky had it probably worse than any other state considering a majority of the battles during the Civil War took place here and we had brother against brother more so than any other state during those times. Like mentioned before, my ancestors, family and myself would too be offended if referred to as anything else but a Southerner.
August 28th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
After reading many of the comments I would surmise that “southern state” is relative. It all depends on where you’re from. Being from Eastern Ky and having lived in Ohio for 6 years I can assure you that I was considered to be something other than northern. Whether that was southern or not was probably interpreted differently by different people. Personally, I would prefer being considered southern. However, my best guess is that people from the Louisville and the Northern Ky area would rather not be considered southern. Other than those two areas my guess is that if you took a pole, most Kentuckians would overwhelmingly say they are southerners.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:24 am
Great question and one that I, as a native South Carolinian and one who spent years in Georgia would answer as: YES. Of course Kentucky is southern. Now, is it southern like SC, AL or other deep south states? No. But, frankly, we shouldn’t want to be. Look, Louisiana is different from Virginia. SC is different from Arkansas. However, they are all southern.
Notice the overriding theme in these posts…southern is GOOD. This is a fairly new phenomenon in the US as for many generations the one ‘free for all’ whipping boy was the southerner (white southerner usually). This is slowly changing as our cities become more cosmopolitan.
This is a fun debate. I’ll act for a moment like I know what I’m talking about as a deep southerner and state with full confidence: KY is southern! Now, where can I get some good BBQ? (Billy’s…of course!)
August 29th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Louisville is Southern as well for the most part. The eastern part of the county has tons of transplants from other states but the rest of us are Southern by God!
I think it is odd that people from the deep south doesn’t want to accept us but will use our recipes and such to fill their Southern cookbooks. Every Southern cookbook that I have includes Kentucky recipes including Louisville’s hot brown. Those of you who doubt, come on up or down depending you where you are and take in what we have!
Mike I agree with you, the South is not one uniform, boring place. It is a place of many traditions, many ways of doing things but one heart.
August 29th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Jay I noticed that you also left out Louisiana, Arkansas and all of Florida. I’ll give you that not all of Florida is Southern but anything north of Orlando is.
August 29th, 2008 at 9:23 am
From a Georgia based website: http://fineoldsoutherncooking.com/SouthernCookery.htm
August 29th, 2008 at 9:24 am
I’m sorry it’s Alabama, not Georgia.
August 29th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Jay “from the true South”, if you’re living in Georgia and wanting to hate on Kentucky and Kentuckians being Southern, which they are, then why are you reading Kentucky.com or this Bluegrass and Beyond blog??
I agree with others that the South and Southerners are different in every state in Dixie. I was born and raised in southern Georgia near Savannah, one of the symbolistic cities of the South and I believe that Kentucky is southern. In fact I believe that the South in general consists of Kentucky, Tennessee, The Carolinas, Mississippi, Georgia (sans-ATL), Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, northern Florida, West Virginia, Virginia and eastern Texas. And yes I’ve been to each of those states. Also most magazines or publications about the South that I’ve read always included Kentucky. If the Confederacy considered Kentucky southern, and they did based on the their intentions of wanting to acquire the Bluegrass badly for the C.S.A., then by goodness it’s a Southern state.
August 29th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Elizabeth great post!
August 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I second what Elizabeth said.
August 29th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I’ve read that Kentucky seceded after the War Between the States because of its ill use at the hands of the Union forces that occupied the state. Some merit to that argument.
For Paul: would you accept that the South begins in Covington & Newport instead of Cincinnati? Cincinnati is a cold place, suitable for Yankees.
For JAY: you omitted the Commonwealth of Vahjinya where I now reside. The people here would take you to task for your omission of the Capitol of the Confederacy and home of Lee - right after they ask, “And who were your mother’s people, dear?”
August 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
The Confederacy actually burned down the original courthouse in my hometown of Mount Sterling, KY. I just don’t see how you can’t be considered a Southern state when a lot of people in Kentucky can look in their backyards and be in or around a Civil War battle ground. And to second Elizabeth, the Confederacy did want Kentucky badly enough to consider the part of the government we had that was Confederate a part of the C.S.A. Kentucky was a very crucial state during the war as all Civil War and Kentucky historians know.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Tom,
Many good comments and most have the right sense of it.
Kentucky, in fact, has two political cultures. The dominant culture is traditionalistic and is akin to the rest of the south. This does not mean that all southern states are alike. But they do tend to view the role of government in the same way - largely to maintain the status quo.
The other political culture is individualistic, more typical of the midwest states and tends to see government as good when it promotes commerce. It is found in northern Kentucky, down to Owensboro and Paducah.
As John Carroll told KCRW recently, the south begins outside the Waterson Expressway.
In northern Kentucky, we would say it begins outside I-275 - somewhere around the water tower that reads, “Florence Yall.”
Richard
August 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
And another thing…
I grew up on the Ohio River, within sight of the Mason-Dixon line, but out town did not identify as southern. We were in the midwestern media market and every voice we heard carried that flat “news anchor” style quality.
But the main reason northern Kentuckians knew they weren’t southern was that other Kentuckians always told us we weren’t.
August 29th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
OK. One more another thing….
Rita just got home from work and wanted me to tell you what you already know….
All true soutehrners are from Atlanta.
She threw back her shoulders and said it with pride.
August 29th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
Bluegrass=Southern Roots music..
KY is certainly a Southern State.
August 30th, 2008 at 11:38 am
I grew up in the Jackson Purchase/Paducah area. I went to college in Southwest Tennessee. Kentucky (at least my part of the state) is without question Southern for good and bad.
I now live in Toledo, and I visit Louisville often because my brother lives there. Louisville is much more closely aligned with obviously Southern cities like Nashville than it is with obviousy Midwestern cities like Toledo/NW Ohio. That’s a good thing. However, Louisville is not as Southern as the Jackson Purchase area.
October 18th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
The fact that Kentucky can be considered anything but Southern, is complete insanity. Whether it be Louisville, Lexington, Covington, or anywhere else in this great State- it’s still Southern.
But, hell, look At Georgia. Atlanta is a darky playground. So when you use large cities like Louisville in a debate discussing whether us Kentuckians are ‘Southern’ or not, I’m not sure how it plays a factor when Georgia (A ‘true’ southern state) contains a city like Atlanta.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I Am from southeastern KY, our area is more assosiated with Tennesse than Kentucky!I was always told that if you lived below Lexington you we’re southern because that is like I guess a civil war bundry, if you live west you we’re in the Midwest plains, and If you lived above you were a northerner! Me I’m a mountain girl!
November 15th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
I Am from southeastern KY, our area is more assosiated with Tennesse than Kentucky!I was always told that if you lived below Lexington you we\’re southern because that is like I guess a civil war bundry, if you live west you we\’re in the Midwest plains, and If you lived above you were a northerner! Me I\’m a mountain girl!
November 19th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Yall people in Kentucky are funny. You wanted to be Yanks when it come down to the nut cuttin. When the SOUTH needed the twelfth and thirteenth star (yall and MO.) you all were playing politics. I will never understand why the stars and bars include a place for Mo. and Kentucky (famous for chicken in more way than one). Yall have no more place on the rebel flag than New York City. At least Billy the Kid was from there. I just can’t stand people that say YEA I’m southern 150 years after they had the chance to PROVE IT. KY is nothing but southern Ohio and Indiana which is yankee and NORTHERN…..or anything but southern except to michigan or Canada. So don’t holler I”M SOUTHERN NOW….where were you when the REAL south needed you? Hiding under Lincoln’s coat tails playing politics. When I buy a Rebel Flag I spray paint over 2 stars that were put there by MISTAKE !!!!